Post by Flesh on Jan 10, 2013 18:17:31 GMT -5
Edit: Silly me, I shoulda put this at the top to begin with:
"So I ask you all this: Do you believe that we as humans are doomed to never be able to establish a form of leadership that will always seek to benefit the masses? Can you think of a way we can save democracy from the infecting grip it has been caught in? "
I am interested to hear what you all think.
Also, TL;DR?
1. DIAF for me please
2. Here are general thoughts in 2 lines:
"Good intentions pave the road to hell."
"Power corrupts; Absolute power, corrupts absolutely."
So recently I was discussing forms of government with a close friend and it made me wish to express the conclusion we came to, and to see what you guys think.
It is always rather difficult for me to put my thoughts into a coherent and orderly format but as always, I will do my best to. With that said, I suppose I shall start off like this:
I believe that the current forms of government, or really even all forms of government do not, and can not work. This is because, for the most part, we humans have a mortal fault, which is; We are all corruptible, but it does go further than just that. We all greedy, selfish and narrow minded. Not everyone is, but it is a part of human nature, and therefore, we all have that potential to some extent.
Democracy, like almost every other form of government, is a great idea in principal but there are a number of underlying problems with it. The first of which I shall bring up is simply the fact that it gives a large amount of power to one person. Now it's true, this persons power is not absolute in any way, and they have hundreds of people beneath them who have the power to go against them; But ultimately this one person, still possesses the most power of an one person. Normally in theory this would not be a bad thing, but as we have all seen many, many times, over and over again: Power corrupts, and the more power you give someone, the more easily they can become corrupt. I will admit, Democracy worked well in the beginning, the men who were given power were not easily corruptible, and most of them did, or tried their best to do good things, for the benefit of everyone, but over time that started to change and bit by bit corruption began to leak into the system like a poison. Now, I won't try and state how this happened, it could be simply because of mankind's greatest fault, or it could be because of the diligent and persistent work of men who wanted to take the power for themselves, ultimately I do not care because it does not matter; What does matter is what has become of democracy.
In today's world the countries that use democracy are at various stages of corruption, with America in the lead, and many other countries following not far behind, my own (Canada) included. Now, the corruption is not as bad as for example it would be in communism, because even though we do give one person a great amount of power, they do not have absolute control. What I have noticed, or at the least, what I feel has been happening, is that all the electoral candidates are all just faces, puppets essentially. Now, America has a great system where it allows ANYONE, who is a native to the country to become a candidate, the problem is the only candidates that 90% of the population know about, are the ones who are heavily funded, that are put out into the media, that get the TV time. You never see Joe Schmoe having a debate with Romney or Obama, and I believe that this is how corruption first began to seep into democracy. By allowing companies, corporations, how ever you want to look at it, to financially back a candidate, it not only blocks 90% of all other candidates from having a chance, but puts that person into the pocket of another, as it were. And this is what elections have become, about 3 people who have been chosen and financially backed by a third party, thus putting that candidate into the debt of that third party, ergo granting that 3rd party a portion of that candidates power, should they be elected. If you closely examine Americas statistics since, well, pretty much since Nixon, you can see how the claws of corruption have been dug in (If people truly want to see the statistics I will point you in the direction of where to find them however, this post is going to end up as enough of a wall of text as it is.)
So thus has become the problem for Democracy, it has doors for 3rd parties to gain accesses to power, and influence the decisions of who we choose to be our leader.
Now, I should backtrack just a little. The purpose of a government is to make difficult decisions that will BENEFIT the majority of the population, to provide safety and security, education, and to prevent war and poverty. I'm sure you could probably think of more however I feel these to be the main principals that a system of government should represent. The current democracy we have is not necessarily bad. People are not being discriminated against in general, genocides are not taking place, and for the most part peace is maintained; However, I feel that for the past...shit I guess you could say almost 70 years that the decisions that have been made by those we grant power to, do NOT benefit the 51%+, instead they seek to benefit the elite of society, thus making life harder for the majority of a population and ultimately causing the government to fail it's role.
I think I will leave democracy at that for now because, personally I do not have a problem with democracy, simply with what I personally fear it will become, and short of having a rebellion, there really is nothing you can do about it aside from attempt to educate people on it's failings.
OKAY SO: "If democracy is no good, in your opinion, then what form of government should we use?"
Well, to be honest, nothing really works, Communism is an excellent idea on paper but as we found out when put into practice it does not work. As we all know the way it is supposed to work is that everyone is to be viewed as equal, the government collects the vast majority of the wealth a county produces, then either redistributes it to the population by paying everyone the same amount of money, (the more money you collectivity make in a year, the more everyone gets) or uses it to better the country itself i.e.: Building roads, schools, hospitals....you get the idea. The problem with this is, well lets just say OKAY! GREAT! You found a man you can trust with a great amount of power, and does not become corrupt, he gather all the wealth and than instead of pocketing it for himself, actually redistributes it....Well, when a surgeon is making as much as a janitor, they start to become very unhappy. "They worked harder in school, they put more effort in, they are more important, they should get more." Ahhh greed. How it makes the world go 'round.
Lastly I will briefly touch on the most successful form of government to have ever been created: A Republic.
The Republic of Rome lasted approximately 500 years without failing, and for the most part did its job in providing for its people; But even that eventually became corrupt and fell apart.
Really, when you get right down to it, every form of government should work. Yes, even a dictatorship, in theory, should work, but for some reason, they all eventually fail. They all fail because no matter how long and how hard people try, we as humans have always been corruptible and eventually someone is eventually given power, who then gives in to our mortal flaws.
"So I ask you all this: Do you believe that we as humans are doomed to never be able to establish a form of leadership that will always seek to benefit the masses? Can you think of a way we can save democracy from the infecting grip it has been caught in? "
I am interested to hear what you all think.
Also, TL;DR?
1. DIAF for me please
2. Here are general thoughts in 2 lines:
"Good intentions pave the road to hell."
"Power corrupts; Absolute power, corrupts absolutely."
So recently I was discussing forms of government with a close friend and it made me wish to express the conclusion we came to, and to see what you guys think.
It is always rather difficult for me to put my thoughts into a coherent and orderly format but as always, I will do my best to. With that said, I suppose I shall start off like this:
I believe that the current forms of government, or really even all forms of government do not, and can not work. This is because, for the most part, we humans have a mortal fault, which is; We are all corruptible, but it does go further than just that. We all greedy, selfish and narrow minded. Not everyone is, but it is a part of human nature, and therefore, we all have that potential to some extent.
Democracy, like almost every other form of government, is a great idea in principal but there are a number of underlying problems with it. The first of which I shall bring up is simply the fact that it gives a large amount of power to one person. Now it's true, this persons power is not absolute in any way, and they have hundreds of people beneath them who have the power to go against them; But ultimately this one person, still possesses the most power of an one person. Normally in theory this would not be a bad thing, but as we have all seen many, many times, over and over again: Power corrupts, and the more power you give someone, the more easily they can become corrupt. I will admit, Democracy worked well in the beginning, the men who were given power were not easily corruptible, and most of them did, or tried their best to do good things, for the benefit of everyone, but over time that started to change and bit by bit corruption began to leak into the system like a poison. Now, I won't try and state how this happened, it could be simply because of mankind's greatest fault, or it could be because of the diligent and persistent work of men who wanted to take the power for themselves, ultimately I do not care because it does not matter; What does matter is what has become of democracy.
In today's world the countries that use democracy are at various stages of corruption, with America in the lead, and many other countries following not far behind, my own (Canada) included. Now, the corruption is not as bad as for example it would be in communism, because even though we do give one person a great amount of power, they do not have absolute control. What I have noticed, or at the least, what I feel has been happening, is that all the electoral candidates are all just faces, puppets essentially. Now, America has a great system where it allows ANYONE, who is a native to the country to become a candidate, the problem is the only candidates that 90% of the population know about, are the ones who are heavily funded, that are put out into the media, that get the TV time. You never see Joe Schmoe having a debate with Romney or Obama, and I believe that this is how corruption first began to seep into democracy. By allowing companies, corporations, how ever you want to look at it, to financially back a candidate, it not only blocks 90% of all other candidates from having a chance, but puts that person into the pocket of another, as it were. And this is what elections have become, about 3 people who have been chosen and financially backed by a third party, thus putting that candidate into the debt of that third party, ergo granting that 3rd party a portion of that candidates power, should they be elected. If you closely examine Americas statistics since, well, pretty much since Nixon, you can see how the claws of corruption have been dug in (If people truly want to see the statistics I will point you in the direction of where to find them however, this post is going to end up as enough of a wall of text as it is.)
So thus has become the problem for Democracy, it has doors for 3rd parties to gain accesses to power, and influence the decisions of who we choose to be our leader.
Now, I should backtrack just a little. The purpose of a government is to make difficult decisions that will BENEFIT the majority of the population, to provide safety and security, education, and to prevent war and poverty. I'm sure you could probably think of more however I feel these to be the main principals that a system of government should represent. The current democracy we have is not necessarily bad. People are not being discriminated against in general, genocides are not taking place, and for the most part peace is maintained; However, I feel that for the past...shit I guess you could say almost 70 years that the decisions that have been made by those we grant power to, do NOT benefit the 51%+, instead they seek to benefit the elite of society, thus making life harder for the majority of a population and ultimately causing the government to fail it's role.
I think I will leave democracy at that for now because, personally I do not have a problem with democracy, simply with what I personally fear it will become, and short of having a rebellion, there really is nothing you can do about it aside from attempt to educate people on it's failings.
OKAY SO: "If democracy is no good, in your opinion, then what form of government should we use?"
Well, to be honest, nothing really works, Communism is an excellent idea on paper but as we found out when put into practice it does not work. As we all know the way it is supposed to work is that everyone is to be viewed as equal, the government collects the vast majority of the wealth a county produces, then either redistributes it to the population by paying everyone the same amount of money, (the more money you collectivity make in a year, the more everyone gets) or uses it to better the country itself i.e.: Building roads, schools, hospitals....you get the idea. The problem with this is, well lets just say OKAY! GREAT! You found a man you can trust with a great amount of power, and does not become corrupt, he gather all the wealth and than instead of pocketing it for himself, actually redistributes it....Well, when a surgeon is making as much as a janitor, they start to become very unhappy. "They worked harder in school, they put more effort in, they are more important, they should get more." Ahhh greed. How it makes the world go 'round.
Lastly I will briefly touch on the most successful form of government to have ever been created: A Republic.
The Republic of Rome lasted approximately 500 years without failing, and for the most part did its job in providing for its people; But even that eventually became corrupt and fell apart.
Really, when you get right down to it, every form of government should work. Yes, even a dictatorship, in theory, should work, but for some reason, they all eventually fail. They all fail because no matter how long and how hard people try, we as humans have always been corruptible and eventually someone is eventually given power, who then gives in to our mortal flaws.